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	<title>Comments on: Linux, not GNU/Linux</title>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-1751</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 01:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-1751</guid>
		<description>The GNU project (and Stallman&#039;s beard) reeks of stagnation (and old bits of food) .. and I find the project&#039;s collective ego to be downright annoying. Their rant about the naming dispute just makes them seem pretentious - the average person is bored by those kind of semantics.  

I prefer to reward the household name to whatever seems appropriate at the time.  Rather, it seems important to ask, &quot;What have you done for me lately?&quot;

(ie.. Ubuntu.. which is basically what I refer to, when I am talking about the operating system of choice..)  If I were still using Fedora, I&#039;d probably just go back to calling it Linux.

It&#039;s about marketing .. GNU is about .. well I don&#039;t know, but it&#039;s not about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The GNU project (and Stallman&#8217;s beard) reeks of stagnation (and old bits of food) .. and I find the project&#8217;s collective ego to be downright annoying. Their rant about the naming dispute just makes them seem pretentious &#8211; the average person is bored by those kind of semantics.  </p>
<p>I prefer to reward the household name to whatever seems appropriate at the time.  Rather, it seems important to ask, &#8220;What have you done for me lately?&#8221;</p>
<p>(ie.. Ubuntu.. which is basically what I refer to, when I am talking about the operating system of choice..)  If I were still using Fedora, I&#8217;d probably just go back to calling it Linux.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s about marketing .. GNU is about .. well I don&#8217;t know, but it&#8217;s not about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Jodrey</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-1193</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Jodrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-1193</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t fully understand what GNU was until I started experimenting with the BSD distributions, which as you probably know are the free successors to UNIX. From what I can tell, the complete GNU system is comparable in function to a complete installation of FreeBSD, NetBSD, or OpenBSD.

FreeDOS is similar. You don&#039;t just get a kernel and a command-line interpreter. There are various tools included with both MS-DOS and FreeDOS that are needed to do day-to-day work with the OS. FreeDOS is a complete replacement for MS-DOS, and GNU is a complete replacement for UNIX, with Linux added to provide low-level management of the computer&#039;s resources.

On the net, you can find various unauthorized versions of Microsoft Windows with extra programs either added in or taken out. They also have names, just like Ubuntu does, like &quot;Windows XP Black&quot; or &quot;Tiny XP&quot;.

You have to be very careful where you draw the line between what a complete operating system is, and what are added third-party applications. 
People need to know and value why GNU/Linux exists. It&#039;s here to be useful, and it&#039;s here to restore freedom to people who are enslaved by the evils of proprietary software.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t fully understand what GNU was until I started experimenting with the BSD distributions, which as you probably know are the free successors to UNIX. From what I can tell, the complete GNU system is comparable in function to a complete installation of FreeBSD, NetBSD, or OpenBSD.</p>
<p>FreeDOS is similar. You don&#8217;t just get a kernel and a command-line interpreter. There are various tools included with both MS-DOS and FreeDOS that are needed to do day-to-day work with the OS. FreeDOS is a complete replacement for MS-DOS, and GNU is a complete replacement for UNIX, with Linux added to provide low-level management of the computer&#8217;s resources.</p>
<p>On the net, you can find various unauthorized versions of Microsoft Windows with extra programs either added in or taken out. They also have names, just like Ubuntu does, like &#8220;Windows XP Black&#8221; or &#8220;Tiny XP&#8221;.</p>
<p>You have to be very careful where you draw the line between what a complete operating system is, and what are added third-party applications.<br />
People need to know and value why GNU/Linux exists. It&#8217;s here to be useful, and it&#8217;s here to restore freedom to people who are enslaved by the evils of proprietary software.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-1181</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-1181</guid>
		<description>As i believe i pointed out in the article, the following formula holds true for a lot of software:

&quot;Without ___________, there would be no Linux&quot;

Insert GNU, Gnome, KDE, or any of the other very large, high profile projects and the sentence works (And may be even more correct). GNU is important, but not enough to force this horrible &quot;GNU/Linux&quot; name, that no one will use, on the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As i believe i pointed out in the article, the following formula holds true for a lot of software:</p>
<p>&#8220;Without ___________, there would be no Linux&#8221;</p>
<p>Insert GNU, Gnome, KDE, or any of the other very large, high profile projects and the sentence works (And may be even more correct). GNU is important, but not enough to force this horrible &#8220;GNU/Linux&#8221; name, that no one will use, on the world.</p>
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		<title>By: GNU/Linux</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-1180</link>
		<dc:creator>GNU/Linux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-1180</guid>
		<description>I disagree. It is GNU+Linux, not Linux. Without GNU, there would be no linux. Why not give the guy credit? GNU/Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree. It is GNU+Linux, not Linux. Without GNU, there would be no linux. Why not give the guy credit? GNU/Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-1172</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-1172</guid>
		<description>The widespread usage of Linux as a brand name for the GNU+Linux system means nothing for the case of clear thinking. The point that RMS makes is that by labelling the system just after Linux, people are led to believe wrong things about the different components. There is a real confusion arising from overloading the Linux label to describe every program conveyed with a GNU+Linux system. 

One such confusion is that people believe that the GNU software are nothing more than a bunch of userland tools. This is not accurate as GNU is an almost complete operating system. By 1991, the system was mostly complete as it was missing one critical component - the kernel program. With this in mind, it doesn&#039;t take much effort to understand why people pair Linux (an operating system kernel program) together with GNU (an operating system without a kernel). Confusion about the reality can be minimized by persisting in the distinctions.

We are well aware of all the other important software that may be distributed together with a GNU+Linux system. Examples may include KDE, X.org, or BSD system software. Whatever extra software is included, the fact remains that all these other software run above the fundamental GNU plus Linux operating system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The widespread usage of Linux as a brand name for the GNU+Linux system means nothing for the case of clear thinking. The point that RMS makes is that by labelling the system just after Linux, people are led to believe wrong things about the different components. There is a real confusion arising from overloading the Linux label to describe every program conveyed with a GNU+Linux system. </p>
<p>One such confusion is that people believe that the GNU software are nothing more than a bunch of userland tools. This is not accurate as GNU is an almost complete operating system. By 1991, the system was mostly complete as it was missing one critical component &#8211; the kernel program. With this in mind, it doesn&#8217;t take much effort to understand why people pair Linux (an operating system kernel program) together with GNU (an operating system without a kernel). Confusion about the reality can be minimized by persisting in the distinctions.</p>
<p>We are well aware of all the other important software that may be distributed together with a GNU+Linux system. Examples may include KDE, X.org, or BSD system software. Whatever extra software is included, the fact remains that all these other software run above the fundamental GNU plus Linux operating system.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 00:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-626</guid>
		<description>I would submit that it no longer matters. Linux has become a brand name, I think we should embrace it and move forward. Attribution is already made as to the author of all this software, I don&#039;t think much more can be gained by insisting that we call the whole thing GNU/Linux. Given that people already use similar name structure for distributions like Ubuntu Linux or Redhat Linux, calling it GNU/Linux is just going to cause confusion, and Ubuntu GNU/Linux is just a kludge, to say nothing of pronouncing the slash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would submit that it no longer matters. Linux has become a brand name, I think we should embrace it and move forward. Attribution is already made as to the author of all this software, I don&#8217;t think much more can be gained by insisting that we call the whole thing GNU/Linux. Given that people already use similar name structure for distributions like Ubuntu Linux or Redhat Linux, calling it GNU/Linux is just going to cause confusion, and Ubuntu GNU/Linux is just a kludge, to say nothing of pronouncing the slash.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Perens</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-484</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Perens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 03:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-484</guid>
		<description>Linux is the name for the KERNEL. The run-time system is called the &quot;GNU System&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linux is the name for the KERNEL. The run-time system is called the &#8220;GNU System&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Rich</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-10</guid>
		<description>The applications you are describing as being a large part of the OS, such as QT, firefox and X, in fact have nothing to do with the operating system. We have hundreds of servers where I work and not one of the linux boxes has any of those things installed. A distribution may be mostly programs like that. So perhaps you are saying for example Ubuntu is more like GNU/Linux + Applications when installed with default packages.

The fact is without GNU you have no useful linux on this scale and without linux GNU would be very obscure indeed. They are a partnership and without any of the other programs you mention they work just fine together. I recognize it as GNU+Linux, GNU/Linux or when I&#039;m lazy just linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The applications you are describing as being a large part of the OS, such as QT, firefox and X, in fact have nothing to do with the operating system. We have hundreds of servers where I work and not one of the linux boxes has any of those things installed. A distribution may be mostly programs like that. So perhaps you are saying for example Ubuntu is more like GNU/Linux + Applications when installed with default packages.</p>
<p>The fact is without GNU you have no useful linux on this scale and without linux GNU would be very obscure indeed. They are a partnership and without any of the other programs you mention they work just fine together. I recognize it as GNU+Linux, GNU/Linux or when I&#8217;m lazy just linux.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Stallman</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Stallman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-8</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d just like to interject for a moment. What you&#039;re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I&#039;ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine&#039;s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d just like to interject for a moment. What you&#8217;re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I&#8217;ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.</p>
<p>Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.</p>
<p>There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine&#8217;s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: Anom</title>
		<link>http://xercestech.com/linux-not-gnulinux.geek/comment-page-1#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Anom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.xerces.com/?p=317#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this post.  It needed to be said.
The &quot;GNU philosophy&quot; irritates me to no end.  They wanted free components, so they wrote them.  So what?  People do that all the time, and that doesn&#039;t make you special.  Half of the GNU contributors contributed to the GNU projects without caring a bit about the philosophy.  They saw a promising and free product and wanted to make it work for them, even if it meant signing away the rights to their code.  Don&#039;t be so presumptuous as to assume that they raise the Stallman standard, too.

GNU libc may indeed be integral to the current implementation.  But Andrew, how much of your libc would run without a kernel?  Absolutely none of it.  Therefore, Linux is Linux with GNU piled on top.  You could of course compile it for another kernel.  But wait, there isn&#039;t a usable GNU kernel, is there?

GNU software is not the most low-level nor the most high-level portion of code in the Linux operating system.  It&#039;s bloody middle-ware.  It&#039;s no more important than anything else in the system.  And the cog that turns it all, the piece that sets the standard for communication with the rest of the system is Linux.  You compile against the kernel and *link* libraries in order to make use of them.

If I wanted &quot;freedom&quot; I&#039;d turn the computer off and go fishing.  I turn my computer on to get shit done, be it work or play.  Having the convenience of your software at the price of your philosophical evangelism and ego is not worth it.  I am not made *free* by using your software, I am chained to it by the manacles of your academic oppression and fanaticism.  So just sod off and go build your toy kernel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this post.  It needed to be said.<br />
The &#8220;GNU philosophy&#8221; irritates me to no end.  They wanted free components, so they wrote them.  So what?  People do that all the time, and that doesn&#8217;t make you special.  Half of the GNU contributors contributed to the GNU projects without caring a bit about the philosophy.  They saw a promising and free product and wanted to make it work for them, even if it meant signing away the rights to their code.  Don&#8217;t be so presumptuous as to assume that they raise the Stallman standard, too.</p>
<p>GNU libc may indeed be integral to the current implementation.  But Andrew, how much of your libc would run without a kernel?  Absolutely none of it.  Therefore, Linux is Linux with GNU piled on top.  You could of course compile it for another kernel.  But wait, there isn&#8217;t a usable GNU kernel, is there?</p>
<p>GNU software is not the most low-level nor the most high-level portion of code in the Linux operating system.  It&#8217;s bloody middle-ware.  It&#8217;s no more important than anything else in the system.  And the cog that turns it all, the piece that sets the standard for communication with the rest of the system is Linux.  You compile against the kernel and *link* libraries in order to make use of them.</p>
<p>If I wanted &#8220;freedom&#8221; I&#8217;d turn the computer off and go fishing.  I turn my computer on to get shit done, be it work or play.  Having the convenience of your software at the price of your philosophical evangelism and ego is not worth it.  I am not made *free* by using your software, I am chained to it by the manacles of your academic oppression and fanaticism.  So just sod off and go build your toy kernel.</p>
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